Concerning Meredith’s importing problems, unless a substantial number of users are experiencing a problem, it is likely the problem resides on the user end– a conflicting security setting, any number of other possibilities. Unless one wants Artfire to add a $100/hour tech fee to figure out your personal computer, it is our problem to solve, not Artfire’s.

Concerning Sara not receiving merchandise, this is a problem for all online selling venues and all of them are hamstrung in compelling seller performance. Artfire does a good job of tracking down a non-performing seller if the email and phone number are accurate but if a seller refuses to respond to either the buyer or to Artfire, Artfire’s only recourse is to close the seller down and cancel the account, which they do. Artfire has implemented a check in requirement for sellers, something no other site does, so that buyers can at least see who is active and who isn’t.

Concerning Elytra’s suspicions, Artfire permits links because what Artfire is selling is a platform the promotes successful sales with no regard to the source of those sales. That includes the ability to promote your items off site. Since Artfire has no FVF, they have no interest in where you sell your items, only that they sell, and that Artfire’s platform makes that more possible.

As to Kelli’s concern about price point, price point is set solely by the seller. Artfire has no involvement or control in pricing. That said, Artfire tends to have a more affluent buyer demographic than similar sites and perhaps sellers are tapping into that information and using it. But, that is not something Artfire can do anything about. Regarding Artfire’s online presence, they are 4 years behind Etsy. It stands to reason they will be less visible. In addition, Artfire has put a priority on seller tools because that is what they sell… tools. I imagine as Artfire grows, they will turn more of their attention to their own self promotion.

Concerning Pam’s efforts to downgrade her account, Artfire collects a monthly subscription fee and cannot downgrade an account until that payment has been satisfied with service. So, if you paid a subscription fee on June 1, they cannot downgrade your account until July1, even if you would like it done sooner. A quick check today shows that this account is gone so Artfire must have done as she asked.

I have been on Artfire for 2 years and have experienced its ups and downs and growing pains. But, I have been much more successful there than anywhere else, including eBay and Etsy. No site is perfect and not every site is right for every type of seller or product but I don’t think I’ve seen a site try harder than Artfire to get it right.

I paid a visit to ArtFire this week, though, because I wasn’t having any luck finding a “just right” baptism gift for 3 newborns. My marketer’s brain couldn’t get over the difference in the online experience between ArtFire and Etsy. Ironically, the first thing I noticed on ArtFire was the higher price points — I hadn’t anticipated that at all. ArtFire’s web design had suggested (to me) that this is a more folksy source of handcrafted items. I looked around enough to determine that I’d made an incorrect assessment of what and who I’d find on ArtFire.

So back to why I felt compelled to comment on this subject. I completely understand the factors that influence which site(s) you choose to use to market and sell your incredible items. Don’t forget, however, to look at things from the buyer’s perspective.

The site(s) that know how to attract and retain shoppers will be the ones that prevail. In other words: the site that creates the best shopping experience will get the most powerful WOM. I have no idea what level of control you have in influencing ArtFire’s priorities, but I’d recommend you stay vocal about this topic. As a shopper (and a digital marketer), ArtFire drives me crazy with it’s lack of overall homepage branding and clunky search options. ArtFire’s online presence is underwhelming, which is a disservice to the artisans who showcase their artwork there.

My advice? Don’t make your decision solely on sellers fees. Be vocal. Talk to your customers — encourage them to make a fuss with ArtFire so that it nows how important it is. Better yet, if ArtFire is going to prevail because it IS so different than Etsy, how can all of you help make that difference? Best of luck to all of you! I will continue to keep an eye out on both ArtFire and Etsy (now I have to find 2 more baptism gifts).

I agree – AF staff certainly do a great job with SEO and submitting to search engines. and there is absolutely no doubt of how attractive their current 5.95$ p/m promotion is. the only thing which makes me hesitate to grab it – is the condition that only CC payments would be acceptable, not PP.

otherwise – yes, the exposure they give to one’s store even with Basic account is simply fantastic. even such a giant as FeeBay don’t do that for their members with store subscriptions – one has to do his own hard work of promoting his store and its inventory, although monthly payment is much higher.

Artfire has really grown and changed because it listens to it’s customers and sellers. When you list an item in your studio but ever item is listed onto Google Shopping and TheFind, the #1 and #2 shopping engines in the world. Also with the Artfire Facebook Kiosk your studio also appears on your Facebook page and all your listings can be set up to appear in you feed! I love it!

I mean, come to think of it ArtFire allows at least 2 things, which Etsy doesn’t :

1) to link directly to one’s shop on Etsy (through adding it to MarketHub)
and even
2) to import the inventory from Etsy !

now, why would they do that ? unless they either have some sort of an agreement with Etsy (surely not altruistic) or they are indeed Etsy’s “mini”
because – Etsy doesn’t allow these to thinks for its sellers who also has ArtFire shop (and I think most of them do)

in fact – NO ANY website or auction, with good traffic and fee based (eBay, Amazon, etc.) would ever allow so liberally to link to any outside venues – as ArtFire does.

so, I guess it is a smart move by Etsy, if indeed ArtFire is their own “mini” (or clone) :

1) they are fully aware that charging $0.2 per EACH item (as they say: “per quantity of one”). even if you have multiple quantity in single listing ! eg. if you make a listing for 10 pieces of handmade goody – you will be charged 10 times X $0.2 = $2 !!! that even eBay doesn’t do). although their flat 3.5% Final / sale fee is a heaven comparing to current eBay’s FVF (9% for auction, 12% for fixed price
2) also I am sure that they are FULLY aware of the main reason why most of sellers either left eBay or eagerly searching for alternatives (hint: that’s the same reason why now they call it FeeBay ! )

so, charging not very wise to attract disgruntled former FeeBay’s sellers by continuing charging them $0.2 listing fee per EACH item – huh ?
(BTW – while eBay now has a newest lure: 100 Free auction listings per months if start price is 0.99$ )
I mean, say, I have inventory of 200 products, some or most of them in multiple quantity of, say, 10 units on average. so, if I am to list them all on Etsy – how much it gonna cost me? 200 X 10 X 0.2$ = 400$ !
well, yeah – I forgot, comparing to FeeBay, where Fixed price listings last for 30 mere days, on Etsy it is 4 months.
although on eBay it is 0.5$ for ANY multiple quantity per listing !

so, it is pretty easy to compare then per month (taking as example the above mentioned inventory – 200 items, with q-ty 10 units each):

Etsy: 400$ divide by 4 months = 100$ a month
FeeBay: 200 items X 0.5$ = 100$ a month
(it doesn’t matter – what is the q-ty per each listing)

It is same apparently !

[however if it is instead another scenario:
10 items X 200 q-ty each, then math will not go in Etsy's favor:
it will cost same 100$ per month on Etsy,
while on FeeBay it'll cost : 10 X 0.5$ = 5$
although FeeBay still has 12% FVF Vs Etsy's 3.5%

if it is though 5 items X 300 q-ty ? ]

ArtFire Basic is free both in terms of listing & selling fee.
ArtFire Pro (verified, better exposure. etc): listing & selling fee, but normally $15.95 per month – although now they they are having a new promotion again for first 20′000 members : life-membership for $5.95 per month.

in terms of fees – Artfire is the winner, no doubt.
in terms of traffic – FeeBay is unquestionable champ.

so, I’m sure Etsy knows very well all the maths and comparison. that’s why :

3) having another site as ArtFire – where sellers can go and list & sell w/o any fees at all – gives Etsy a neat solution: it still keeps its sellers where they would list at least SOME of their inventory (logically – higher priced – for the sake of not wasting 0.2$ listing fee), yet at the same time – be able to go to “mini” version (as I suspect what ArtFire actually is) and there list & sell for FREE completely !

yet, there is a catch here, or few:

4) by having such an arrangements, Etsy not only doesn’t loose the sellers (& buyers too) – but rather gets a lot of huge EXTRA traffic ! because ArtFire DOES allow both linking to one’s Etsy shop (thus – creating so many inbound Links !) as well as even – to import inventory from Etsy to one’s shop on ArtFire ! smart, huh ?

in the end, Etsy’s traffic is almost 6mln visitors lately – while ArtFire’s ~0.5mln !

so, in such a way, Etsy (if indeed it is them who made this system) DOES NOT loose at all, but has a win-win situation in any case:

a) if seller want a BETTER exposure / traffic (and thus – a better chance to sell faster) – then he must rather go to Etsy (or better yet – FeeBay )
and of course, accordingly – pay fees, because better opportunities can’t be for free.

however

b) if seller has a big inventory & doesn’t want to spend so much listing fees. I am stressing the Listing fee – because in most of cases – it never even comes to actual Sale ! on FeeBay it is easy to check by doing search of Completed Listings – a useful option I couldn’t see on Etsy or anywhere else. how many items are being listed Vs how many are actually Sold ?
and what seller would do when item is Unsold ? choices are not so many: either re-list the item again & again till it is sold (means – pay Listing fee several times), or pull it off and it becomes a part of growing stagnating unsold stock, OR ….. look for some other alternative websites where Listing Fee can be cheaper or even free.

yet it brings back to same point:

on cheaper or Free websites traffic (exposure) are not so good, and one must either work harder to do his own SEO promotion, or …. PAY EXTRA for that (as in case with ArtFire, Etsy and any other site out there) and each additional feature.

so, coming to the original starting point :

I still think that perhaps ArtFire is Etsy’s “mini” !
(because – why on earth would they openly allow and even encourage to Link to Etsy and import inventory from there ? nobody does that – certainly neither FeeBay, nor Etsy. )

what is of it for Etsy, if seemingly they don’t allow “fees avoidance” aka selling outside of Etsy ? well, the thing is : they won’t get those fees anyway, because hardly any smart enough person would list many low priced items on Etsy anyway – because profit margin would be too low to meet the ends. then what they could do ? either not sell at all, or sell on some other websites, or … sell (or rather more precisely – LIST, because sell or not – it’s not sure) on Etsy’s “mini” (aka ArtFire, as I think it is) and link to one’s Etsy shop! in this case, Etsy doesn’t lose at all ! because it knows very well that its own traffic is much better than on ArtFire and seller would be wise to keep at least some inventory (mostly higher priced items, to justify fees) which would have a better chance to be sold there due to better traffic. while lower priced items have less priority – and thus seller would rather be content to keep them on ArtFire as free listings indefinetely, with much lower chance of being sold (yet with “secret hope” that some of his buyers / visitors from Etsy might come to his ArtFire shop ). Etsy though is also Ok with it: because it knows that high volume of low priced items which have VERY LITTLE or no any chance at all of being sold, would not actually bring them Final sale 3.5% fee, but only sort of burden the whole total inventory and sort of “spoil the style”
(I guess, that’s one of main reasons – why FeeBay has now canceled all the FeeBay store whih used to be just 0.03-0.05$ per month, since those listings had a very low or no any exposure – and now only remains Fixed price listings & auctions)

so, website as Etsy would be shrewd to establish its own “mini” (as for example ArtFire) – to achieve goals of providing small sellers with other venue, yet at the same time – INCREASING its own traffic !

how that would increase Etsy’s traffic?

say, I have few items with higher price on Etsy, like 10-20 listings which I think have a better chance of being sold there. also I have like 100 items (or some may have much more than that – like few hundreds) for very low price, which is no point to list (and more to the point: to REPEATEDLY re-list) on Etsy and waste each time 0.2$ per each and every small item. what I do? I go to ArtFire, list them there for free for as long as I want. then what I do? I also link to my Etsy shop through MarketHub option.

so, that means: I got for example 200 items on ArtFire with low price (supposedly – attractive to potential buyers) of 1-3$ each. ArtFire automatically uploads them to GoogleBase (it is true – can see it though My Stats or in Google Analytics). that means – people are coming to see my items on ArtFire – however EACH of these listings has a Link to Etsy.
that means, in such a way, Etsy gets 200 inbound Links !
(from each of my 200 items on ArtFire through the MarketHub Link to Etsy)

that’s why as I said – it is a win-win situation for Etsy.
and that’s why, I guess, it has much higher traffic than ArtFire.
(say, if Etsy would have allowed the same – direct links from sellers’ items to theri ArtFire shops, – then most likely ArtFire traffic would have increased a lot)

that’s why I am really inclined to think that indeed – ArtFire is Etsy’s “mini” version, cheaper or free.

that’s why the conclusion is : there is no point to attempt to compare “ArtFire Vs Etsy”. in fact, I think all these multiple comparisons and discussions on this subject of “ArtFire Vs Etsy” only build up more traffic for Etsy.
perhaps, that’s what is really all about.

so, my opinion: USE BOTH if you can afford it ! (and all other similar sites)
BUT ……. as many said here already: make your own site !!!
(and keep building traffic to it)

sorry for such a long comment.

Cheers !